[Update: October 2010]
I recently started playing the massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) Project Entropia (PE) and I want to share my experience with anyone who is researching the game or its creator, MindArk, especially as regards the inevitable labeling of PE as a “scam.”
I’m not affiliated with MindArk in any way. I discovered PE while browsing blogs. Someone had linked to a bbc.com article about the sale of a space station for $100,000US. In reaction to this article, I downloaded the free game and began to play.
WHAT IS PROJECT ENTROPIA?
Project Entropia is a virtual universe with a real cash economy. It is set on the distant colony of Calypso, the first habitable planet mankind has ever found. The players take the roles of colonizers that strive to build a new world together, under the threat from various enemies that wants [sic] to destroy the colony.
What does this mean?
It means that Project Entropia is a large multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG). The normal way such games operate is by purchasing the client software in a store and then pay a subscription fee every 30 days, while the internal game economy is just that—a game economy.Project Entropia does the opposite! The client software is free to download over the Internet and there are no subscription fee associated whatsoever. The real cash economy means that the internal Project Entropia economy is linked to the real world economy, by using a currency called the Project Entropia Dollar (PED), which have a fixed exchange rate to the US Dollar (10 PED equals 1 USD).
You as a player use PED to acquire virtual land and equipment in Project Entropia to invest in your avatar???s (Player representation in the virtual universe) growth and abilities. A unique aspect of Project Entropia is that a player may elect to transfer PED back into real life currency, thereby enabling them to earn real money while playing an online computer game.
Project Entropia website
I immediately learned that one can get “free money” while very new in the game by gathering and bottling the sweat from live, hostile animals and selling the bottles to other players. This method is tedious and the payout is pennies per hour of gameplay. I played this way for several days to see if the frequent skill rank advancements meant I would start getting more sweat per hour, but I got bored and decided it would be worth the price of a mainstream game just to find out if PE was any fun.
I sent about $22 via paypal to a German outfit for 200 PED (Project Entropia Dollars). Notice that the transaction wasn’t free. Withdrawals aren’t free, either: you pay 1.5% of the amount, minimum 100PED ($10US). With this 200PED I bought a weapon and began to hunt the animals that were so reluctant to give of their sweat. I also bought some armor to cover up the ugly orange jumpsuit that is the only possession of a new recruit.
I soon learned that hunting is a costly occupation at this early stage in the game. My income didn’t meet the cost of ammo. On top of that, the weapon needed costly repairs.
Game fees
Players in PE do not pay any fixed game fee or monthly subscription fee in order to play the game. Players costs are the equipment and objects that they collect as they play and which wear out with use. The players must regularly upgrade their possessions via special automated service stations to retain full capacity.
For example, a hunting weapon wears in relation to the number of shots discharged. The wear level is indicated via status information on the screen and can also be noticed by reduced performance in the object. The normal service fee for an active player lies between 0.5 and 1.5 USD per hour played.
MindArk.com: About PE
That’s what I’ve been paying to play this game, give or take a dollar. Compared to World of Warcraft, an MMORPG that cost me $50 for the software and $15 per month of unlimited gameplay, it’s an expensive game for the average player. Did anyone really expect to download a free game, play it for free and get paid to do it? I hope not. I never read any promise from MindArk to that effect.
There is no shortage of enticement, however. Throughout the game, messages scroll in one corner of the screen to inform me that so-and-so killed/mined/manufactured something “at a value of XX PED!” These are enticing numbers indeed. I am hunting “Atrox Young” (a mini t-rex of sorts) and getting 0-5PED per kill, still losing money due to equipment degredation. I see a message, “X-Y-Z killed an Atrox Young at a value of 84 PED!” so I keep hunting despite the poor returns.
Is MindArk doing something illegal? I doubt they are and I doubt it ever will be illegal to create an online economy such as this. The players are certainly playing at a premium price, unless one deems himself unworthy of any occupation higher than Professional Sweat Gatherer.
Are they stealing from me? No, I’m paying for a unique experience. I had an item disappear from my inventory once but it returned when I logged in the next time. I doubt I’ll spend $26,500US to buy an island like this guy did. Although I did read somewhere that he has already recouped the investment by collecting taxes and selling deeds.
Is it possible to make money in PE? Sure, people do, especially the traders. There are online “companies” composed of participants with the sole purpose of buying low and selling high. They don’t use weapons or armor, but their expensive clothes wear out over time just to make things fair. Traders are too proud to wear the orange jumpsuit.
Is Project Entropia a scam? That depends on your idea of a scam. The purpose of the game is to make MindArk money while providing gamers with entertainment. There’s nothing untoward about that. The rules are clear but the formulas are not. I knew that items were subject to entropy (Project Entropia, get it?) before I ever spent a dime on the game. I did not know that it’s impossible to go out there and kill enough monsters to pay for the damage done to my sword every time I swing it, but that lesson only cost me $3.
I am still playing Project Entropia, still exploring and enjoying the virtual universe of Calypso, still dulling my laser sword and still paying for it all. I do this because my hopes to make money in PE were dashed and supplanted by a better reason to play a game: fun.
Hey now, what’s this? Somebody in an orange jumpsuit wants me to buy his hard-earned sweat. That’s a good price, too. I bet I can make a buck here before the night is done. 
Update: October 2010
That trade with the newbie earned me a few pennies of profit, less than the cost of the clothes that wore out during the transaction. I quit playing and deleted my account in 2006. I found other, less costly games less stressful and more fun. However, this article has gathered new visitors and comments ever since. The story remains the same: some people feel cheated, others consider the game a fairly priced entertainment, and a tiny minority claim personal prosperity. I’m curious how the game experience has advanced in years since I last looked. Maybe I’ll give it another few bucks to find out.
Its gambling Johnneverdie. By the way arent you an EU employee?
I knowz people who lost on here and its like the other guy said, unlicensed and unregulated online gambling. Thats supposed to be illegal now in USA. Can someone whos not affliliated or employed by Entropia comment on that
It’s got elements of being a casino, but not if you trade.
read my squidoo lens on it entropia universe
If you put a little money in it and trade well, you’ll make a little money out of it. Some people put in big money, like ship owners, or better, land-owners, and make a decent return. But it takes patience, and few people make a real life living out of it. It’s crazy to think that one can, without investing a great deal into it.
It’s too simple to say that it’s just a casino or a scam.
The problem is that people who are not gamers by nature, think it sucks. Whereas gamers, who are happy to put money into it, think to themselves something along the lines of, I’ll put the equivalent monthly sum that I would if I were taking out a subscription to World of Warcraft.
When you enter an email address like sean@nospam.com, your credibility is suspect. No links for you.
I w ill share my experience , and to the paranoid people i dont work for MA nor am i an alien. I started playing entropia in 2008. I have about 8 months playing time , with a break in playing. My first day i tried sweating and didnt take long to realize i wasnt going to make money to play at the level I, and I stress I wanted to play at. so I depoed 20 dollars . with this money i bought some small mining equipment , and a small gun and ammo. In my first three days of mining i hit a melci water hof of 765 ped. i used this to upgrade my equipment and buy more ammo and probes. In the time ive played i have hit two other hof’s one for 830 on large stripped cotton fabric. and 400 something on atrox old. I have also hit numerous globals from 50 to 100 peds , alone and in team hunts. The thing you have to remember you arent going to depo 10 dollars and ath for 70k ped on your third shot, unless you are very very lucky. In real life you dont flip 3 burgers and earn 70k a year , you have to work your way up. Also if you max your credit cards to play a game you will not only lose in the game , but also in real life. Managing money here is no different then rl. irresponsible is irresponsible. be satisfied with low amounts at first , dont try to hunt atrox alpha on your third day of sweating. if you play the game with brains and patients its easy to play on a moderate amount and sometimes even come out ahead. In the long run i know i will have surplus ped , cause im not trying to get them all today and spend them yesterday…good luck
This game is scam! It’s a casino camouflaged as an online game.
I’ve played it for years (since 2001, a few months before it went gold/released) and I know what I’m talking about. All the shit about dmg/pec calculations are useless. Yes, you can reduce your loss somewhat, but this won’t make you profit! It will just allow you to last an hour or two (or day, depends on your play style, weapon and ammo usage per time and of course the money you pump in this casino). But in general, you will always lose.
The only way to profit is luck. Only if you are lucky to get one of the rare globals (small wins of 50-250 PEDs) or some HoFs (bigger loot which one of the 20 highest this day or week) or the very very very very rare All time Hofs (comparable to jackpot in a casino or the jackpot in the lottery).
Everyone who tells you, he constantly makes profit is either
a) a liar
b) is a trader (or shop owner for this case) or owns a piece of land he rents and manages good (doesn’t require ingame skill, only real skill and SHITLOADS of real money. Expect like 5.000-25.000$ (USD not PED!!!) to pump into a land + another 25.000 to populate/manage/advertise it etc in order to be profitable with this piece of land
The general rule for Crafting/Hunting/Mining profession is: The average return rate is around 60%. This means if you use 50$ in ammo (and this is not much, it’s enough for like 2 hours of hunting with an MK II which is still a very beginners weapon) and go hunting, your will loot around 30$ worth of loot. So you basically lost 20$ in only 1-2 hours! That’s what some people have to work 2-4 hours in real world to earn so much.
And the reason why this game is nothing else than gambling is the way Hunting/Crafting/Mining works. You pull the lever (ingame this means: Shoot at a monster, attempt to try an item or place a mine) and then following happens:
a) You don’t get anything (crafting failed, no mining node found or the monster didn’t had any loot). For Hunting and crafting this happens around 20% of the time, for mining it happens around 40-60% of the time!!!!
b) You won a little bit, but SIGNIFICANTLY less than you put in. This happens around 90% of the time when a) jump in
c) You won a medium amount. You won more than you invested, but not enough to cover your losses from b). This happens quite rarely and in about 5-6% of the time a) don’t kicks in
d) You won a high amount. This happens very rarely. In less than 1% of the cases. This is often enough to cover your losses in this run and give you a little to medium profit. However in most cases it’s not enough to cover profit of your last 5-10 runs
e) You won the jackpot. This happens as rare as winning the jackpot in real life lottery. But if it happens, it will cover your next 10-200 runs on crafting, hunting or mining. This happens in around 0.00001% of all cases
End of story? In 70% of the cases you will lose around 30-40% of the money you put in this slot machine called Entropia, in 20% you will only lose 5-15% and in 5% you will break even. In less than 1% you will make profit and in less than 0.0001% you will become rich. This is the typical scheme which casino and illegal gambling works.
Entropia has nothing to do with skill (unless you are trader or land owner, which both aren’t official ingame professions as no ingame skills exists for those). In Hunting you can’t determinate by skill if you hit or miss. The game will do this for you, even if you accurately aim to the monsters body and it stands next to you, server will often tell you you missed.
You can’t also calculate or determinate by skill the profits by skill. For example, if you could say: I kill 10 atroxes and spend 1500 Ammo on which costs me 15.00 and I know every atrox gives exactly 2 PED of loot it would make 20 PED of loot and for killing them I have 4 PED decay so in all I have 19.00 PED expenses and 20.00 PED loot, so I made a profit of 1.00 PED IF I never miss (i.e. use my real skill to aim accurately), then things would be different! Or if you aim good and hit the monster in the head you do double or trippe damage than if you shoot at it’s foot. This is (real life) skill based. Entropia is not, it’s luck based. And luck based games which involves money are called gambling in every country on this world and is only allowed if strongly controlled by government. Entropia is not governed by government!
But this is not the case, personal skill doesn’t matter much in Entropia, luck is main factor.
@the guy above me:
You’re the typical example of a lucky guy. Sure some such people exist in Entropia, so they do in real live. But this is very rare. I’ve played since 2001 and I’ve only had like 3 globals higher than 100 PED and still lose 20-40% per hunt. If I still ever do any of them, as I realized the gambling effect of this hidden casino long time ago and mainly spend my time by trading and only go out hunting if I’m bored or have enough money which isn’t invested in any trades for the moment or can spare it w/o the risk of running out of funds for my trades.
I almost feel bad for making money by trading/reselling and thus indirectly (slightly) driving prices up for a PED or two of profits (even though I always keep my prices fair, but this doesn’t change the fact that I buy stuff 2-3% below the market and sell it 1-2% above the market price and kind of prevent people who really need it to buy it cheaply).
But this is the only thing which involves real life skill and is possible without huge investments of 10.000-50.000 USD which is hilarious for a game! Only a total maniac or rich brat would do something like this and spend such amounts in a few pixels inside an online casino game. However, trading is not very fun. Basically in the past 2-3 years I just logged in to buy stuff from AH, calculate profit margins and put it back in and log out and do this twice a week. The fun stuff (hunting, mining, crafting) is unpayable for a mortal unless you want to hunt snablesnots for 5-10 years.
I have been playing for about one week.
First few days, sweating for free money. Rate: about 2 ped per hour.
That’s enough to buy you a gun and a bit of ammo. Early hunting loot does not repay for ammo costs.
Fourth day I spent 10 dollars and bought mining gear, a healing tool, and some very basic armor upgrades.
The next few days were lots of fun as I searched for mining spots and explored the vast world.
However, just as before, the mining “hits” eventually were returning less than the cost of the mining probes… so… after four days of 5-6hour sessions eventually the funds ran out.
I sold the healing unit, and half the specialty mining tools… got 20 ped back.
Went out mining again… all 20 mining attempts returned nothing.
Today, I spent the morning sweating for a couple ped. Mined again. Nothing.
So here’s the deal-
You will pay real money to enjoy the game the way it was intended to be played. Ignore the posts by people who said they didnt spend a dime… 2 ped an hour for sweating is the equivalent of you being paid 20 cents an hour for your efforts.
Horrible.
I figure that you will have to pay in around 40 dollars per month if you are an active player… that’s about equal to 3 to 4 hours per day…. still well below the MA target rate of a dollar an hour but…
You Will Still Have To Pay to Play.
End of line.
Hello readers,
This article is about my personal experience with Planet Entropia or Entropia Universe which is what its now known as.
I’ve been playing Planet Entropia since 2001 to 2009. Yes, I quit in 2009. Quitting this game is exactly like quiting gambling, as much as I hated the game mechanics, I loved the thrill of winning, the addicting sound of getting loot and the joy it gave me when I saw the shiny new items in the loot window.
My life experience with Planet Entropia is exactly the same as all the others. I have a Gold Card and secure logger, which was sent free due to the fact that I deposited large amounts of money into my account. I put thousands of USD in the game and got nothing out of it except the thrill of winning something back, which on rare occasions happened. I had about 100+ globals and 4 hall of famers, throughout my whole Planet Entropia life. The Hofs were small, around 300 to 900 ped.
I started reading through hundreds of help and strategy guides to maximize my potential. These guides/guidelines all failed to express one leading factor. The game mechanics and mathematical formulas change constantly and without notice. I found this out while crafting.
I had found a great item to craft, which consistently gave me more than what I put in even at its trade terminal prices. On the second day of crafting this item my character got disconnected, right after I HoF’ed, surprised, I tried logging back in but found that my IP was blocked. After two hours of trying to login, I was finally successful, immediately I noticed my character had been moved a great distance from the crafting terminal I had disconnected at, nothing seemed to be missing so I didn’t have much to worry about except for the 2 hour IP block……..I was wrong.
The great item that I had consistently been crafting was no longer returning the gains it was previously giving to me, instead I was losing everything with little to no gain at all. In my delusion I didn’t fully realize this until all my funds were gone. I could’ve deposited more money and hoped it was just a bad twist of luck but the 2 hour IP block was just too questionable. My thoughts was that I was cheated and that the company had “blacklisted” my account to receive less gains. This is my own opinion.
After several days to fully think it through, I uninstalled Planet Entropia and vowed to never gamble with this game again. I have since been sharing “MY” experience with this company on forums and chat rooms.
In “My” opinion this company is a scam and they cheat people out of their money. As far as the gambling part, its not gambling when your guaranteed to lose. Its like playing cards except the dealer looks at all the cards and hand picks them for each player’s hands.
Thanks for reading my personal experience with Planet Entropia and have a good day..
Sorry for the typo I meant 2003-2009
I’ve played Entropia Universe for 8 days now. I’ve spent this time sweating and looking for fruit/stones. I deposited $10 for trading.
Positives:
.. The game has great graphics.
.. I love the music.
.. Nice atmosphere (because of the music)
.. Good movement system: click-based and key-based.
.. Lots of different skills to wonder about.
.. It uses RL money, so it has added reason to think about how to make a profit.
Negatives:
.. Hunting/Mining/Crafting remind me too much of gambling
.. Not a good introduction to the game for new players.
.. PvE seems too cut and dry; it needs more flesh and background.
.. Very few (i haven’t seen any, but a couple exist) quests and tasks to do.
.. The cities aren’t really inhabited or used, they’re just for show.
My review:
Yes, I think the biggest thing has been my disapproval of the hunting/mining/crafting aspects. I have just come from trying out Second Life. The difference between Second Life and Entropia Universe is that Second Life feels much more like a real economy. Players can make new things and add new things to the world that they just simply cannot do in EU. Entropia Universe, by comparison, feels like it’s a fake economy that masquerades as a real one so that MindArk can exploit naive players and get rich off them. Everything, seemingly, is caught up in a yarn ball. MA controls everything.
I think it does need to be regulated. Someone needs to protect the players from exploitation. The reality is that a free economy is all about exploitation. This is true in the real world and it’s true in Second Life and Entropia Universe too. The difference is that in EU (Entropia Universe) MindArk has too much influence over things. They have an unfair advantage because they have access to the code and future plans. Players do not own the economy and are not free to make new things. AS long as this is the case, they’re vulnerable to exploitation in the same way people are in a casino.
The players don’t own the economy any more than a gambler owns the slot machine.
Still, I will have EU a chance. I will play for at least another month to make use of my $10 deposit in some way. I really want to hope I am wrong. I want to hope that there’s an underlying strategy, perhaps mathematical, that will help me to find out where the profits are. I understand that if the average person could make a profit than MindArk would go bankrupt because they would be paying players too many PEDs to meet their balance sheets. The problem is that instead of making the world complicated and expansive so that players need to use real skills to understand it (and yes there will be winners and losers in this kind of scheme, like in the real world), they instead have made the world bland and based mostly on chance and formulas. So they have made a world that has winners and losers, but it’s not skill, it’s CHANCE.
I want to make a further comment.
If Sally and Billy invest $10 each into EU and they’re the only players, can you imagine a scenario where BOTH leave the game with a profit? Lets consider that MA taxes Sally and Billy $2 each to pay for servers costs, EU development and EU future planning. This leaves both Sally and Billy with $8 each worth of in-game currency. How can they both leave with an amount greater than their initial $10 deposit?
This question has been eating me alive. I’m not an economics major. I do not yet understand how Entropia Universe works, but I don’t think everyone in it can walk away with more than they put in. I just don’t think that’s possible unless MindArk itself gives Sally and Billy extra money and thus goes bankrupt.
This game is lame. Actually it’s not even a game, games have goals, accomplishments, etc. It’s just a big MONEY VAMPIRE. Wander around in circles and PAY PAY PAY to do it. “It’s the money spending game where the goal is to spend your money” WEEE!!!
It isn’t gambling though. In gambling, you may actually have a chance to WIN from time to time. When you pay $50 to “win” $30, your not winning $30 — your losing $20. And again look around… if by some fluke you do “win” a jackpot, your account will likely be drained of the winnings!
And for all who say that paying to play this POS game is worth it cause it’s so fun… WOW. There are a WHOLE BUNCH of games in this world to play that are A LOT MORE FUN TO PLAY THAN THIS “GAME” and for only a fraction of the cost. The only reason that ANYONE plays this is because they see that big pot of gold at the end of the rainbow that isn’t there. Without the lure of money, NOBODY would play this.
The only thing that still amazes me is that more people don’t speak up about it. People get ripped off for THOUSANDS and quietly go away with their tail between their legs. I think that it’s a good rule of thumb to TAKE BACK 10 TIMES the amount that you were scammed out of. Since you can’t TAKE anything back… THEN MAKE IT COST SCAM PLANET STUDIOS 10 times the amount that you were ripped off for.
Post to as many blogs, videos and forums as you can to warn people about getting ROLLED by MIND ARK. Anyone who did any research before getting hooked into this scam would be able to see what was really going on. THEY WOULDN’T GIVE THIS COMPANY ANYTHING.
Enough small losses add up to a HUGE LOSS. I learned that by playing this stupid game, so I guess it wasn’t a total waste of time.
Yea right. I’ve been a participant of this game since 03… Spent thousands of dollars. I’m not a complete moron that runs around with the least efficient weapon shooting rocks etc. so if someone replies to this don’t assume everyone is an idiot and tell me about economics and choices.
Unless you get LUCKY or don’t actually play the game through one of it’s professions, eventually you will lose pretty much everything you put into it.
You could stand in town ripping people off by buying cheap and then selling it to someone else overpriced like a Dbag. “The Middle Man”.Seriously that is your profession? Or spend days sweating so you can shoot a couple of animals and get no loot then be back at sweating. Sure sounds fun.
Ya I don’t feel a sense of entitlement and don’t feel like standing in towns for hours being a dick flooding the chat with advertising…. and so in order to do anything in the game I have to spend money.. and spend it you shall.
I just did an inventory calculation to find my avatar’s value, with everything I’ve collected over the years.. It is around $80… out of several thousand! Half of that $80, I just deposited the other day, ha ha. It’s a lose lose if you PLAY the game, the professions are really just a choice of how you want to lose your money.
Understand this game is expensive, VERY expensive.
I ask you to compare this to WoW for a second. People there directly pay Blizzard a monthly fee for an online experience (if fishing for coins in WoW for 4 days is fun I don’t know but people pay for it). We can all agree that there is a 0.001% chance that you will find an item that you can go and sell to a third party for actual real life currency and even potential pay your membership with. If you don’t well I think you just gambled away your money to Blizzard.
The problem with saying this game is a casino is because you went into it with the wrong mental state. “I see a game that I can get real money without going to a third party, it must mean that I can make profit… wait I didn’t make profit… this is a scam??” No my friend its a game and nothing more. You pay for your gameplay experience and not to make money. If you don’t like the gameplay sure rant on that but if you expect to be making easy money go onto those pay per click sites and after a year you’ll receive your 1$ check in the mail.
I myself played the game and bought weapons in bulk from hunters and sold it back to new players for less then the auction house sold it for. After that I used my profits hunted a little and then returned to trading. For me not to have to deposit into the game I had to do a little trading which is normal but if you want to just be able to play the game and not have to worry about making money just deposit 20$ a month and you should be fine (all dependent on how rash you are with your money spending).
Last note if you’ve spent a thousand dollars on this game in 4 years or more that’s normal (1000 / 4 / 12 ~ 20 / month) if you’ve spent thousands of dollars in less then 4 years with no business plan you might have a problem (no self control) I would recommend you send an e-mail to MA asking to get yourself blocked and do the same for any poker sites you come across and all your local casinos. Please don’t let the weak minded people control entertainment for the rest of us.
dude above me is a damned idiot.